NZB3: Steam and Religion

3/22/2006

 

Steam and Religion

Rev Watergrave
As a spin-off from talking about The Root of All Evil, Richard Dawkins' new television documentary, the Julian Pistorius blog has called me out on my views on religion.

My respect for religion is like my admiration for a well-made steam engine. It's great what it can do, we're more powerful with it than with nothing in its place BUT it has been supplanted and the new way is better. But Julian comes back with...

"That amounts to saying that...the ball and chain you've shackled yourself to makes nice sounds as they drag along the ground."

Well he's right! Just as the limitation of steam-powered industry was a shackle upon further progress it too was a pleasent, even romantic, way of life- from which many "nice sounds" and stories are still with us. But like a ball and chain, the age of steam had to be cast off in order to be supplanted. Could we possibly have had Henry Ford's transport revolution and be getting by these days in steam automobiles? Could we have today's aircraft without the petroleum revolution? Could we send space craft to the moon with massive water-boilers as the prerequisite?

Steam, like religion, was a fine thing. Where would the Industrial Revolution have been without it? But, like religion, its time in domination has come and passed (all due respect to people who live in Huntly and Rotorua). Only someone who cannot admire something in a steam engine cannot either admire something in religion.

Julian says,-
"In my mind, religion is the careful avoidance of thinking about certain things...To believe in something with no ground in reality, to rely on faith, is just playing pretend."

Religion is not so one-dimentional as this. Epistemology asside, you've got to give religion credit for lifting us out of the muck. In the beginning humans were few in number, existing in small tribes that competed with the other animals to survive. Standard of living? What standard of living!? Life expectancy? What a joke! But this is the benchmark, it was as primitive cavemen that we lived and can live again. It's not our genetics that separates modern man from primitive man but the institutions that have been slowly put in place since those times and it started with religion.

For example, how long would the 1.2 billion Muslims survive without their religion? If you could strip it away and leave them with the primitive cave-man mindset they would all die. Cave-man sense is insufficient apparatus to support 1.2 billion people. Maori stone-age culture, in 700 years, didn't do much better for their prospects. Australian Aborigionals have been in action even longer than that and achieved far less progress for themselves and many continue to be "shackled" by it. Mere humans, however, with the addition of Islam have a social system that gets the food, shelter and clothing to many millions within many nation states. Islam is the firmament for an international airline and for the world's top oil producers. How much of the economic wealth in the world is traded into the hands of Muslims? Lots. What faith preserved and advanced the Western heritage when the West was in the Dark Ages? This one. Which conception of life can make primitive cave-men the major security threat to the superpower of the twentyfirst centurary? This religion, this culture.

Antiquated and inferior though it is, religion deserves our admiration for what it has done for us in the past and for what it still does for others today.

Comments:
I think civilisation has grown in spite of a belief in what isn't real rather than because of it. Religion served us all very very badly for many centuries - it's called the dark ages. Greek civilisation thrived in spite of a belief in gods, which did not dictate morality or limit science -but simply were there.

I don't think your thesis stands up.
 
But Scott,-

Michelangelo thought he was a Christian. Wasn't he?

Wasn't Ronald Regan?

The people of The United Arab Emirates think they're Muslims. Aren't they?

What conception of life, what religion or philosophy, is reponsible for the civilising influence of the above then?


I mean to say! You're going to explain to me that these people are mistaken about the name and identity of their own belief systems? Why don't you march up to the Pope while you're at it and explain to him that he's not a Catholic? If you only had to do that it would be easier!

I'm all ears.

This should be good. :)
 
I am not denying they believed in their ghosts. However, a consistent belief in Christianity or Islam would justify murder and widescale oppression. Michelangelo believed in science as well as God, Reagan believed in freedom (which is not in the Bible) and the UAE is hardly a model of civilisation, it's just better than most of its neighbours.

Very few people are consistent philosophically, but the religious component is not helpful. Had Reagan not had it, he would have been a better President as he could have more readily rejected the religious right.

Belief in what does not objectively exist cannot be positive.
 
I am not denying they believed in their ghosts

Are you denying, then, that philosophy/theology is the guiding force of history? Of man?

If it is, and you have any respect for the achievements of Michelangelo, Regan, and UAE then I think a round of applause has to go to their respective guiding conceptions of life. Religion has been a fantastic success, judging by the results.

It's a bit like steam technology you'd have to say.

Belief in what does not objectively exist cannot be positive.

Western Culture is still haunted with ghosts, it is not the consistent philosophy practised by angels like you and I. So tell me again how it has not, and cannot have, ever been once positive?

And, Michelangelo's David anyone?
 
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