The Islam Issue
"Some things about Islam could use improving" you mean, such as its sheer irrationality? Who DOES it work for? The women who have to be protected from the hienous men who only judge them on their appearance?
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3/13/2006
The Islam Issue
"Death to Destiny Church! "
"Death to Scouting New Zealand!"
"Death to Shinto!"
"Death to The Salvation Army
Death to St Stephens Anglican Church!"
"Death to St Bedes Colledge!!"
"Death to Parnell Christian Woman's Knitting Circle (meets every second Sunday at Jubilee Hall, bring your own wool and scones)!! Yahh!"
Just some of the possible Free Radical title-issues to come? Well why not!? If Lindsay Perigo's libertarian magazine can call for the death of Islam and the above possibilities, while perhaps not as urgent to Mr Perigo, are no less logical.
It was Mr Perigo and his 'Politically Incorrect' radio show that put me on to libertarianism and Objectivism. I used to think he was great but then silly ideas like this one cropped up. Of course he isn't calling for the death of people but for the death of a bad doctrine. However, it is not really Islam being referred to in these pages but, rather, Islamism.
Islam is culture, working machinery of everyday life that works for millions of families by keeping them safe and at peace in social cooperative local and international communities. We in the Western world once faltered into a Dark Ages and it was the Islamic world that took up the civilisation we passed away, added to it, and allowed us to take up our civilisation again hundreds of years latter. Some things about Islam could use improving but the same must be said for our own culture even though both serve us well enough.
Islamism, on the other hand, is the Ku Klux Klan of Islam, the crazy bastards going hyper-mental and blowing shit up all over the place. This is who The Free Radical should be directing vitriol against! That's who's really being written about, if unwittingly, but incorrectly being identified with Islam. You're attacking the wrong blokes Mr Perigo! Some Kiwi practitioner of Islam might be browsing the magazine rack and see the TFR's "death to Islam" jump out at him and be unjustly alarmed. He might even accept the TFR's false alternative and be forced to choose sides, throw his lot in with terrorisers.
Alexander Downer rightly said this at the end of last month,-
"To characterise this fight against terrorism as a fight against Islam is to invite not just a clash of civilisations but the broadening of support for terrorists."
I wonder if there's any TFR content about how to supplant Islam with an atheistic philosophy of reason? Not very likely. I think it's an exercise in yelling the words "Western" and "freedom" back at the people yelling "Jihad" at us rather than a project to improve the condition of civilisation.
posted by Rick #
8:00:00 PM 
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"Some things about Islam could use improving" you mean, such as its sheer irrationality? Who DOES it work for? The women who have to be protected from the hienous men who only judge them on their appearance?
I understand what you are saying, but the world would be better off if religion became a quaint historical curiosity.
I understand what you are saying, but the world would be better off if religion became a quaint historical curiosity.
Quite right Rick.
If one seeks to 'win hearts and minds' this is not how you go about it. It's fine if you are just having a beer with your homies. If it is for wider consumption the approach is totally unacceptable. In fact I stopped donating to Libz for this reason. I now donate that money to the Salvation Army.
Incidentally, I have a good friend who is an anarchist, and he finds Perigo way OTT - which is saying something, I can tell you ;-)
If one seeks to 'win hearts and minds' this is not how you go about it. It's fine if you are just having a beer with your homies. If it is for wider consumption the approach is totally unacceptable. In fact I stopped donating to Libz for this reason. I now donate that money to the Salvation Army.
Incidentally, I have a good friend who is an anarchist, and he finds Perigo way OTT - which is saying something, I can tell you ;-)
# posted
by 
: 3/14/2006 7:28 PM
: 3/14/2006 7:28 PM
Libscott,-
such as its sheer irrationality? Who DOES it work for?
Let the culture without irrationality cast the first stone there mate. And I say the powerful argument for this culture working as the machinery of everyday life is the population, production, and just the lives that it supports as it has for hundreds of years. Beside countless other cultures that have been tried and which have stagnated or killed the practitioners thereof, it is without dispute highly successful.
Right on Ruth. Sad state of affairs when it's the Salvation Army we've to look to though. Libertarians should have an organisation like that ready to voluntarily pick up the shards of the "society" we mean to shatter.
such as its sheer irrationality? Who DOES it work for?
Let the culture without irrationality cast the first stone there mate. And I say the powerful argument for this culture working as the machinery of everyday life is the population, production, and just the lives that it supports as it has for hundreds of years. Beside countless other cultures that have been tried and which have stagnated or killed the practitioners thereof, it is without dispute highly successful.
Right on Ruth. Sad state of affairs when it's the Salvation Army we've to look to though. Libertarians should have an organisation like that ready to voluntarily pick up the shards of the "society" we mean to shatter.
Ayattolah Perigo is a lunatic. Obviously so. He is leading his pack of followers into oblivion === sort of like his own career. Sad. Vicious but sad.
# posted
by : 3/15/2006 8:24 PM
: 3/15/2006 8:24 PM
What's irrational about capitalism? Islam "working" is a bit like saying the stone age "worked" because it lasted so long. It is a bit like saying you can walk from Wellington to Auckland, but if you can drive or fly, why wouldn't you?
I don't support the Salvation Army because of its unapologetic homophobia, which came out in the 1980s when it strongly publicly supported retaining criminal laws against homosexual acts.
Apologise for that before they get my money.
I don't support the Salvation Army because of its unapologetic homophobia, which came out in the 1980s when it strongly publicly supported retaining criminal laws against homosexual acts.
Apologise for that before they get my money.
What's irrational about capitalism? Islam "working" is a bit like saying the stone age "worked" because it lasted so long. It is a bit like saying you can walk from Wellington to Auckland, but if you can drive or fly, why wouldn't you?
I don't support the Salvation Army because of its unapologetic homophobia, which came out in the 1980s when it strongly publicly supported retaining criminal laws against homosexual acts.
Apologise for that before they get my money.
I don't support the Salvation Army because of its unapologetic homophobia, which came out in the 1980s when it strongly publicly supported retaining criminal laws against homosexual acts.
Apologise for that before they get my money.
What's irrational about capitalism?
Nothing! But what I'm saying is that our culture, like Islam, is also irrational. There is more to our culture than stark capitalism.
India's got capitalism. USA has it, Europe has it, UK has it, Australia has it and we have it. But these lands don't have the same culture! We've all got our own behavioral quirks, rituals and traditions and they bare no essential connection to rationality. I have examples, if pressed for them.
Islam "working" is a bit like saying the stone age "worked" because it lasted so long
Exactly. So you agree with me.
As far as I'm concerned if the Armish or the Muslims continue to live the lives they've chosen as we do ours that's fantastic. Our way, capitalism is better than their way and I don't mind telling them so (and we can't even help showing them so). But I draw the line at the persecution agenda in Free Radical LXXII
Nothing! But what I'm saying is that our culture, like Islam, is also irrational. There is more to our culture than stark capitalism.
India's got capitalism. USA has it, Europe has it, UK has it, Australia has it and we have it. But these lands don't have the same culture! We've all got our own behavioral quirks, rituals and traditions and they bare no essential connection to rationality. I have examples, if pressed for them.
Islam "working" is a bit like saying the stone age "worked" because it lasted so long
Exactly. So you agree with me.
As far as I'm concerned if the Armish or the Muslims continue to live the lives they've chosen as we do ours that's fantastic. Our way, capitalism is better than their way and I don't mind telling them so (and we can't even help showing them so). But I draw the line at the persecution agenda in Free Radical LXXII
Ah, Mr Anonymous said...
Ayattolah Perigo...
Careers. All careers are bound for oblivion, so what's your point?
Sense of Life Objectivists. Not really making waves even though it's been aspiring to do so for five years now. It has looked strong before, fizzed, recovered, fizzed. It's in the nature of message board natter that it never amounts to anything in the real world. Maybe the new crew can be the first to transcend the bollocks, I know 'em and they're decent guys.
If you think it's sad, Mr A, praps you should sign on and help make a go of the SOLO project?
Ayattolah Perigo...
Careers. All careers are bound for oblivion, so what's your point?
Sense of Life Objectivists. Not really making waves even though it's been aspiring to do so for five years now. It has looked strong before, fizzed, recovered, fizzed. It's in the nature of message board natter that it never amounts to anything in the real world. Maybe the new crew can be the first to transcend the bollocks, I know 'em and they're decent guys.
If you think it's sad, Mr A, praps you should sign on and help make a go of the SOLO project?
Lindsay Perigo is absolutely right about Islam, and one day those who of you who attack him for being extremist will look back on this episode and admit that. Don't let yourselves forget that there would be no Islamic extremism if it were not for all those 'moderate' Muslims whose belief in their superstition keeps it going.
# posted
by : 4/12/2006 10:04 AM
: 4/12/2006 10:04 AM
I want to make it clear that Lindsay Perigo is, indeed, right about Islam and as an extremist myself would never attack him for being an extremist.
there would be no Islamic extremism if it were not for all those 'moderate' Muslims whose belief in their superstition keeps it going.
Again we agree. And this tells me that we'd better snap them out of that superstition and win them over to our side.
How? By being firm, but fair. By being patient but intolerant of evil doctrine, yet offering respect for a fellow intellect- a fellow man. That's my way.
Perigo's is the way of abuse. Pissing people off is a poor transmitter of enlightenment.
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there would be no Islamic extremism if it were not for all those 'moderate' Muslims whose belief in their superstition keeps it going.
Again we agree. And this tells me that we'd better snap them out of that superstition and win them over to our side.
How? By being firm, but fair. By being patient but intolerant of evil doctrine, yet offering respect for a fellow intellect- a fellow man. That's my way.
Perigo's is the way of abuse. Pissing people off is a poor transmitter of enlightenment.
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